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Post by fredcoleaa on Aug 24, 2008 10:12:18 GMT -5
Can someone c&p the rules for EDH?
The link posted in the forum seems to be broken.
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Post by Athansor on Aug 24, 2008 15:58:01 GMT -5
Rules of Elder Dragon Highlander: -All cards other than basic land and banned cards are restricted to one copy per deck. -When constructing decks, each player chooses a legendary creature to be their general. -No two players in the same game may have the same general. -A general's mana cost dictates which color mana symbols may appear in in the deck. -All generals are removed from the game at the beginning of the game. -If a general would be put into a graveyard by an effect, its owner may remove it from the game instead. -While a general is removed from the game, its owner may play it by paying its mana cost plus 2 for each for each previous time it has been played this way this game. -Players begin the game with 40 life. -If a player takes 21 points of combat damage from a single general, that player loses the game.
That's kind of a quick run down, I'll try to find the banned list. Apparently the site that used to host the official rules is just... gone
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Post by Athansor on Aug 24, 2008 16:00:31 GMT -5
* Balance * Test of Endurance * Worldgorger Dragon * Biorhythm * Sway of the Stars * Upheaval * Panoptic Mirror * Crucible of Worlds * Ancestral Recall * Black Lotus * Moxen * Time Walk * Library of Alexandria * Yawgmoth's Bargain * Coalition Victory * Kokusho, the Evening Star (Added Feb 29th, 2008) * Recurrning Nightmare (Added Feb 29th, 2008) * Limited Resources (Added June 1st, 2008)
Banned list
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Post by fredcoleaa on Aug 25, 2008 21:49:53 GMT -5
Ok, I understand Balance Test of Endurance, Biorhythm.
But why ban Upheaval, Crucible or Moxen?
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Post by Athansor on Aug 26, 2008 0:01:08 GMT -5
Upheaval - The format is designed to be slow, complex multiplayer games. What does upheaval do? Make them even slower. For the sake of everyone involved, it's totally banned.
Moxen, I dunno, if you actually have moxen I'd be cool with you playing them. They're not broken in this slow, multiplayer format.
Crucible was banned because the powers that be decided that crucible + wasteland/strip mine was just too good and too unfun for this casual format, so i say it stays banned.
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Aug 26, 2008 2:05:19 GMT -5
I'll fight for crucible and say that as long as you aren't strip mining every turn its in no way broken same with panoptic mirror. If it gets out of hand someone can just destroy the artifact or the players will just kill the annoying player the same way we resolve issues like this in normal multiplayer games.
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Post by jewishdan18 on Sept 16, 2008 11:41:09 GMT -5
if your general is an artifact creature, does that mean that all the mana u'll generate will be colorless? And that you can't have any basic land?
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Sept 16, 2008 12:37:34 GMT -5
Yes, that is the case. If your general is Memnark, you cannot have any cards that have colors in their mana cost in your deck, and all mana you make is colorless. You can still use unlimited basic lands, but if you tap Mountain, you get colorless mana from it. Remember, in EDH, any attempt to produce mana outside of your general's colors results in that much colorless mana instead.
Some artifacts, such as Reaper King, have colors, however. Reaper King happens to have all five. In this case, in spite of its being an artifact, it allows you to produce colored mana and use colored cards because it is all of the colors. I think there are other artifacts like this as well.
I have an interesting question for debate. While I'm not sure it would be healthy for the mechanic, what would be the effect of using a planeswalker as a general? Should it be allowed, or would it break the mechanic?
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Jul 24, 2009 7:48:13 GMT -5
I've been reading the CR a lot layely, and something has been bugging me about a certain EDH general. When Nelson wanted to play Akroma, Angel fo Fury as a general, I think I recall us not letting him play it face down as a morph. If my memory in this regard is faulty, please correct me. Otherwise,
112.5d An object’s ability that restricts or modifies how that particular object can be played or cast functions in any zone from which it could be played or cast.
This rule, by my understanding of it, should allow him to play Akroma face down, even from the RFG exile zone. Am I misinterpreting this?
edit:vv:Guess I remembered incorrectly, then.
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DazBoot
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Post by DazBoot on Jul 24, 2009 9:55:07 GMT -5
I don't remember restricting Nelson from morphing Akroma, only saying that it would cost 2 more each time, and that it was rather silly as we all knew what it was.
The one I DO remember is that you cannot suspend Ith from the RFG zone, as part of the cost is removing it from your hand.
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Post by Kiki on Dec 19, 2010 19:00:11 GMT -5
Clarification of rules:
For those of you who are not aware, Sheldon is one of the few level 5 judges as well as on the EDH rules committee.
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Post by fadedoasis on Dec 19, 2010 20:46:55 GMT -5
Well then they need to reword the rules to make it clear that identities care about land types.
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Post by Kiki on Dec 19, 2010 21:17:52 GMT -5
Rule 305.6 made it obvious that basic lands had rules text. As sheldon said,
They seemed to think that the rules text granted by rule 305.6 and the rule saying that color identity was determined by rules text was perfectly clear.
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NyxAvatar
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Post by NyxAvatar on Dec 20, 2010 0:29:55 GMT -5
Um, Will, why do you care so much? Seriously, this is almost pitiable.
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Post by seeker on Dec 20, 2010 0:34:37 GMT -5
Um, Will, why do you care so much? Seriously, this is almost pitiable. Hey man, what would be the point of playing Magic without rules? We'd just be playing Anarchy, and only morans like Anarchy.
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NyxAvatar
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Post by NyxAvatar on Dec 20, 2010 0:46:07 GMT -5
It's just he went to such great lengths over a rule that doesn't even really matter. I mean would there even be a point in playing off-color duals? No. It was just an idea people were entertaining. Will must have somethin' painful up his ass that he cares so damn much about so damn little.
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Post by Kiki on Dec 20, 2010 1:35:29 GMT -5
It's just he went to such great lengths over a rule that doesn't even really matter. I mean would there even be a point in playing off-color duals? No. It was just an idea people were entertaining. Will must have somethin' painful up his ass that he cares so damn much about so damn little. Actually Ive considered it for collective restraint and krosan verge. Both of which are very solid if you can. If you would like me to explain how collective restraint or krosan verge would get better if you have off color duals, please let me know. That I cared enough about the rules to become a judge should have signaled that I care about the rules of this game to a certain extent.
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Post by fadedoasis on Dec 20, 2010 5:27:56 GMT -5
I'm going to fight this one. According to the Oracle, Underground Sea's text box IS BLANK. It HAS no rules text. It has two land types, and the rulebook grants it mana abilities, but it has NOTHING in its text box.
Also according to Oracle, Hallowed Fountain's mana abilities are reminder text only.
Anyone who knows anything about Magic should never EVER tell you to look at how OLDER versions of cards were worded, because those older wordings are almost always inaccurate. If you don't agree, then my Mirrodin version of Loxodon Warhammer does not grant lifelink, but instead grants "Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much life."
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Post by DazBoot on Dec 20, 2010 12:07:49 GMT -5
I'm going to fight this one. According to the Oracle, Underground Sea's text box IS BLANK. It HAS no rules text. It has two land types, and the rulebook grants it mana abilities, but it has NOTHING in its text box. Also according to Oracle, Hallowed Fountain's mana abilities are reminder text only. This is why I brought it up in the first point. The oracle text is actually completely blank, and has no mana symbols on it. The ability is obviously there, but everything I can find shows it as only reminder text. And Sheldon clearly states: "Mana symbols in reminder text are not part of color identity." So while I agree that it goes against the idea, it seemed to me that technically it works. Additionally, while I agree that rules are important (see the thread on Saito about my stance on that), I think that people have to realize here that EDH is essentially a casual format. Like all casual formats, there are rules, but they are to some extent subjective. Social rules override official rules in this format, the opposite of what applies in competitive play. Even on the official EDH it makes this clear, with the banned list actually saying that it is a "suggested ban list". Having spent an extensive amount of time playing casual here at RPI, as well as managing things like a Type 4 stack and Mental Magic Stack, I know that there are going to be times where the rules need to be adjusted in order to maintain the goal of the casual group, to enjoy the game.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 17:49:48 GMT -5
Anyone who knows anything about Magic should never EVER tell you to look at how OLDER versions of cards were worded, because those older wordings are almost always inaccurate. I actually made a deck around this point once; Red/Artifact with Atog, Wall of Fire, and the Ivory Cup-style cards.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Dec 20, 2010 20:08:06 GMT -5
, I think that people have to realize here that EDH is essentially a casual format. Like all casual formats, there are rules, but they are to some extent subjective. Social rules override official rules in this format, the opposite of what applies in competitive play. If it's casual then why do you even need to care that much about optimizing your deck to the level of adding off color duals? I personally don't care that much, as that degree of optimization I don't feel has any impact on multiplayer EDH games I play, which are casual and multiplayer. So far nobody's called me on running Painter's Servant in my Reaper King Deck, because the deck has none of the cards the Servant breaks and part of the deck's theme is to play all the scarecrows. In some kind of sanctioned EDH event I'd advise not playing with the duals, since I'm pretty sure most judges would disallow them (I would). For casual, I could not care less. You still can't make off color mana, so outside of domain effects the added consistency is pretty meaningless in casual. As I have 0 duals, the question is pretty meaningless to me in the first place.
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Post by DazBoot on Dec 20, 2010 23:02:40 GMT -5
I don't care about optimizing my deck. I just read the new rules and thought I found something interesting. The only reason I would consider it would be to make fetches a bit smoother. (In Teneb, I could play off color fetches like Misty Rainforest, and get an Underground Sea or Tundra if I already had my Bayou or Savannah)
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Post by fredcoleaa on Jan 25, 2011 12:11:39 GMT -5
Anyone have a link to the current EDH banned list?
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Post by massimiliano on Jan 25, 2011 12:12:50 GMT -5
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Post by zrealm on Jan 27, 2011 13:41:14 GMT -5
The debate about dual lands has been effectively ended by comprehensive rules changes, btw. The changed rule 903.5e covers any land with a basic land type.
Also the oddest EDH rules interaction has been fixed to be sane.
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Post by DazBoot on Jan 27, 2011 14:05:41 GMT -5
The comprehensive rules on the wizards site is out of date, could you provide the new rulings?
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Post by zrealm on Jan 27, 2011 14:44:44 GMT -5
They haven't been posted yet, but 903.5e now says you can't play a land with a basic land type of a mana type you can't produce.
The other rule is the way people actually play (but was technically not how the rules were written). At the beginning of the game, your deck's colors and set by the color identity your general has at that time. If your general changes colors later it doesn't change the colors of mana you can produce...
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Post by Kiki on Mar 13, 2011 22:19:10 GMT -5
What would people think about a house unbanning of kokusho? I think primeval titan, consecrated sphinx, and reveillark are each scarier in their own way.
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DazBoot
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Post by DazBoot on Mar 13, 2011 22:37:08 GMT -5
First off, Kokusho has been officially "Frowned Upon" in just normal casual of Magic Club, so it seems unlikely.
Also, this feels much more like Exsanguinate than anything else you listed, but all of the cards including Exsanguinate are cards that I have heard people claim to be "Unfun" to play with in a lot of situations, so my guess is that people aren't going to be for unbanning Kokusho.
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Post by DazBoot on Mar 23, 2011 11:43:34 GMT -5
This is not a rule, but it was a good point that was discussed in Sheldon's last article. The speech was given by Toby Elliott at Pax, and I think it's a topic that we as a club have been working on for a while. It is obvious that this format will mean something different to every playgroup, but this is a good thing to keep in mind.
I'd like to take a few minutes to talk about Batman.
Not the dark and gritty Christopher Nolan version or even the dark and twisted Tim Burton version. I want to talk about the 1960s version, starring an oh-so-earnest Adam West. Those episodes, classic TV that they are, were almost always broken into two parts. At the conclusion of the first part, Batman would inevitably have been trapped by the villain and placed in some inescapable deathtrap.
These fiendish killing machines were masterpieces of Rube-Goldberg-ian baroqueness, themed around whichever particular villain had triumphed over Batman that day. But they all had one thing in common - at the start of the second part, once the villain had left the room, Batman would find an equally baroque way of escaping these traps. And by the end of the episode, the villain would be carted away to what appears to be the lowest security prison of all time, since they seemed to have no problem popping up again at will in later episodes.
Some of you out there think this seems pretty silly. Once you have your arch-nemesis incapacitated, you kill them and you'll be able to run rampant through Gotham City for the rest of your career. Scott Evil, in the original Austin Powers movie, summed this up: "I have a gun, in my room, you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll blow their brains out!" To which his father replies "Scott, you just don't get it, do ya?"
Scott Evil doesn't understand Commander. He sees a format he can break easily and a ban list that doesn't make any sense. The Joker? To the Joker, the journey is more important than the final result, and if Batman gets away, there'll be another chance to break out of Arkham and concoct a new fiendish deathtrap. The Joker loves Commander.
Commander is a Vintage format in which you're guaranteed to have a pretty strong card - your general - available to you all the time. You have lots of extra life, and it's multiplayer, so people's attentions are spread around. There are too many guns. If your goal is simply to win, you're likely to be frustrated at how easy it is. The good news is that there are lots of formats - Standard, Legacy, etc. - that are all carefully managed to cater to you. Commander wasn't designed that way. It was built as a social format, a way to hang out with your friends, play some Magic, and see what kind of craziness develops. If a game goes well, everyone gets a few moments to cackle like a supervillain.
What we can do as the Rules Committee is try to steer people away from cards that we have found accidentally make the game uninteresting. We want to make sure that the shark-infested custard you plan to dangle your enemies over isn't emitting toxic fumes, because that would be awkward. If you are using Erayo, or Armageddon, or putting Curiosity into your Niv-Mizzet deck, you aren't thinking about defeating your opponents with a laser mounted on the moon, and there's no ban list long enough to stop you finding guns too powerful for the format. But if you heard the phrase 'shark-infested custard' and that gave you warm fuzzies, I think we have a format for you. (Elliott)
We simply operate on a different platform, from a different philosophy, that other formats do. We don't intend to be like them. We have no desire for Commander to be all things to all people. We want to encourage a particular subset of people to have a particular kind of game they enjoy, regardless of how it also might be played elsewhere. We're not going to cater to the hyper-competitive or the 1v1 crowds, but we're not going to pass judgment on them either. We're fine with local groups playing however they want, but we're going spend our effort, our energy, and our industry, on our focus group.
We're never going to be able to stop the Super-Spike from breaking the already-broken format (without banning a few hundred cards, which we all agree would be destructive). What we can do with the Banned List is rid ourselves of the worst offenders and point the play of the game in the direction of the shark-infested custard. (Sheldon)
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