What is the mana cost for Counterspell?

[fredcoleaa]

R&D, at least for now, seems to feel that UU is a little underpriced for Counterspell, basic counter spell, no conditions or tricks (Mana Leak or Memory Lapse). However, UU1 (Cancel) seems to be a little overprices. Usually if you're paying 3 mana for a counterspell, you get a little something more (Dismiss, Hinder, Absorb, Undermine).

So my question is: What is the mana cost for Counterspell?

It seems to be about UU and a half a colorless.

[Xaigon]

Cancel is an abomination. Counterspell was fine for years, but it was apparently overplayed. I think they're just better off with Counterspell variants until they feel that the environment has evolved to a point where Counterspell for UU is fair.

[Athansor]

There's just a big problem with counterspells in that they're an unlimited answer. Terror is amazing, stops a dude. Counterspell is infinitely better because it stops every spell in the game. Everything. And at 2 mana, that means you have to play it. Why wouldn't you? It's amazing! At three mana though, it becomes awkward to keep that mana open and still be able to win the game, not to mention it becomes hard to play 2 a turn if your opponent wants to drop 2 spells per turn, so your reactive strategy can't win anymore. That's why any deck that's going to play cancel is going to play mana leak, rune snag, something else in the two slot for back up on that second spell.

The other huge problem is how unfun it is. Counterspell basically says to an opponent "no, you don't get to play the game this turn" and that's just not fun for the game. From a strictly competitive point of view it's a lot of fun and very skill testing to both use correctly and to play around correctly, but at the kitchen table it's no fun at all. This is why if you go to casual games on mtgo or mws or whereever you so often see a message "no counterspell decks, no land destruction decks" because both strategies fall under that category.


For competitive magic, counterspell is very good. For casual fun magic, it's very, very bad. That extra very in the casual market means that we get cancel instead of counterspell from now on, and it will still always see some play.

[Chris]

One standpoint that you are not looking at it from is the design perspective. The whole counterspell ability is a staple in every blue set that they make and making the bread and butter "counter target spell" as just UU doesnt leave much room to create new cards around.

You build a set you need to throw the new mechanic at counterspell and find a new appropriate mana cost for it. With the simple one only being UU, putting a disadvantage on it like making it a soft counter or limit the card types it can counter should make it cheaper but you really can't make it much cheaper than UU. Putting it at 3mana gives you more wiggle room to design cards around.

[Xaigon]

Sept 14, 2008 12:49:08 GMT -5 Chris said:

With the simple one only being UU, putting a disadvantage on it like making it a soft counter or limit the card types it can counter should make it cheaper but you really can't make it much cheaper than UU. Putting it at 3mana gives you more wiggle room to design cards around.

There's plenty of room. Wizards has yet to really implement negative mana costs CCC of 0 and gives you mana when you play it. I shiver to think what sorts of drawbacks that'd have though (cause right now that's looking insta-win).

[Kino]

If something like that were to happen, it would almost have to have a pact-like drawback. You lose the game if your opponent manages to do this or that during the rest of their turn, or on your next turn you tap out during your upkeep. Negative mana costs would be such a difficult mechanic to balance. I don't see it happening any time soon.

[jewishdan18]

they could add a heavy life loss or sacrifice effect to it...but i think its better to stay in the realm of whole numbers (preferably counting numbers)

[Athansor]

They already printed counters with "0" mana cost (Rewind) and that whole cycle of untapping your lands when you play spells ended disastrously. If I'm not mistaken, they even said that they're never doing that again.

[fredcoleaa]

Rewind wasn't especially bad, since they reprinted it in 9th.

[Mike]

Free spells compose two of my decks. Cuz it's brroken!

I think Mana Leak is a perfect example of how counterspells should be. If it costs any less and UU, it should have a drawback (albeit a small one). I also think they have the right idea in making alternate effects such as Remand, since there is a huge difference between 2 CMC and 3.

[Athansor]

Ok, what's the cost of Hymn to Tourach?