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Post by fredcoleaa on Apr 6, 2011 20:39:44 GMT -5
I am constantly attacked first in my play group.
Looking for suggestions on how to deal.
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Post by tehwerr on Apr 6, 2011 20:51:23 GMT -5
stop winning.
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Post by vultanphase on Apr 6, 2011 20:54:15 GMT -5
Wall of hope.
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DazBoot
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[AWD:010203]Grand Arbiter - Foghat
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Post by DazBoot on Apr 6, 2011 20:58:31 GMT -5
Are you looking for social suggestions? Or ways to react in-game?
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Mike
Mike
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Post by Mike on Apr 6, 2011 21:35:09 GMT -5
play raging goblin
</fix>
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Post by vultanphase on Apr 6, 2011 22:02:37 GMT -5
Ha ha it is funny because it is a one mana haste creature so you will always be able to attack before your opponent, and thus are not attacked first!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 23:38:53 GMT -5
Well, being from central California, if you want to deal, you have to go on the low. People are attacking you because you're too out in the open with your drugs; keep them quieter.
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Kiki
Will A
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Post by Kiki on Apr 7, 2011 0:52:21 GMT -5
You get attacked first if you have the best deck. Make your deck unfun. Once that is accomplished and your deck is terrible for a few months in a row, people won't attack you first if your decks are consistently terrible.
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Post by fadedoasis on Apr 7, 2011 1:18:23 GMT -5
You get attacked first if you have the best deck. Make your deck unfun. Oh, isn't it exactly like Will to equate winning with fun. Fred, get an early defense. Make them not able to attack you. Like Colin said, Wall of Hope. Follow it up with guys who are great at blocking. And change your diplomatic strategy. Don't try to take out someone early game, just hold back, deal with a couple threats, but let your opponents fight amongst themselves. When they're weak and out of cards, drop a bunch of threats at once. (Hold back a bit, just in case you can't get through before a Wrath or something.)
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Kiki
Will A
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Posts: 1,309
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Post by Kiki on Apr 7, 2011 8:41:12 GMT -5
no, i equate an ability to reach out and interact with your opponent as fun. Once you remove all: disruption/removal of any form cards that provide opponents with an incentive not to attack you metagame cards
Basically, things that aren't ramp, draw spells, and big vanilla creature
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Post by tehwerr on Apr 7, 2011 9:00:46 GMT -5
no, i equate an ability to reach out and interact with your opponent as fun. Once you remove all: disruption/removal of any form cards that provide opponents with an incentive not to attack you metagame cards Basically, things that aren't ramp, draw spells, and big vanilla creature fun removing your opponent's ability to play with you. you see that's the wonderful thing about magic. it takes two to do a duet
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Kiki
Will A
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Posts: 1,309
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Post by Kiki on Apr 7, 2011 9:14:21 GMT -5
How dare I wrath the board when my opponent has a giant of creatures. How dare I control magic a consecrated sphinx.
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Post by lightspvp on Apr 7, 2011 9:53:17 GMT -5
Play 1v1 or play with a deck with the same powerlevel as the people you are playing against. If the people you play with are playing only for the long game of huge creatures and staring at each other doing nothing, play green or white.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 10:30:13 GMT -5
no, i equate an ability to reach out and interact with your opponent as fun. Once you remove all: disruption/removal of any form cards that provide opponents with an incentive not to attack you metagame cards Basically, things that aren't ramp, draw spells, and big vanilla creature fun removing your opponent's ability to play with you. you see that's the wonderful thing about magic. it takes two to do a duet So I get what Will C is saying here. (*Deep, man.*) Will A's post was not even grammatically correct.
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Mike
Mike
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Post by Mike on Apr 7, 2011 10:41:20 GMT -5
So to offer a serious suggestion to your question, Fred:
It seems like you are perceived as a threat. This is most likely because you are playing good decks and are winning more often that others. What you need to do is some damage control. Play some games with some god-awful decks/cards, and make sure you don't win any of them. Make sure to be vocal about losing (I don't mean whining). You need them to forget about your ability to win.
It's all about mindset. A huge part of the way I play multiplayer is figuring out just how little I can commit to the table in order to not die. A player is perceived as a threat when they have scary permanents, a reputation for being able to combo/win from nowhere, or a source of ridiculous card advantage.
A few actual cards that help: Any ghostly prison/propaganda/war tax effect, while somewhat annoying, usually more than pulls its weight. Point removal can be important, if you make sure only to use it on people who actually attack you. If you do this enough, they will remember that "attacking Fred makes me lose my stuff".
The last tip is to subtly hint that you're having less fun when they kill you off quickly. This only works if they actually care what you think, and you have to be subtle so as not to seem whiny, but usually Magic players are pretty responsive to this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 10:48:59 GMT -5
The last tip is to subtly hint that you're having less fun when they kill you off quickly. This only works if they actually care what you think, and you have to be subtle so as not to seem whiny, but usually Magic players are pretty responsive to this. Of course, if they respond with "Well, you shouldn't be playing ____ cards" then you know you need to find other people to play against. I.e. "Even one land destruction card makes an EDH deck into a non-casual and unfun EDH deck that all the rest of the players should kill immediately" is a reason to go find someone to play against who isn't a whiny bitch. Not to point fingers at anyone, but you will find people trying this "You in particular need to die first and THIS is why!" wherever you go.
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Post by lightspvp on Apr 7, 2011 11:43:23 GMT -5
cleaned -kevin
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Mike
Mike
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Post by Mike on Apr 7, 2011 12:32:30 GMT -5
I only build "good decks" for the purpose of 1v1. There's a difference between good multiplayer decks and good 1v1 decks. IMO it's not very exciting to play casual formats in 1v1, since they are not balanced like standard or legacy. And no, I don't think EDH is balanced. 100 card singleton is a means of increasing variance, which makes it best as a casual multiplayer format. I also think that the banned list is not complete enough. Sorry for hijacking yo thread, Fred.
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Post by lightspvp on Apr 7, 2011 12:39:34 GMT -5
cleaned -kevin
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Post by tehwerr on Apr 7, 2011 12:48:27 GMT -5
A player is perceived as a threat when they have scary permanents, a reputation for being able to combo/win from nowhere, or a source of ridiculous card advantage. I think some of the people in the club should figure out how to drop their reputation, rather then whine about how nobody likes them, when they get killed before the game even really starts. also I think in multiplayer you can offset your reputation for winning with smooth words and politics. this is the key to multiplayer and is what make multiplayer casual and fun. (I'm going to say something controversial now) maybe if you find impossible to talk yourself out of situations, and you think all problems have to be shut down forcibly with action, and you find it unpleasurable when you get killed out of a game because of this and your reputation. then perhaps you should just stop playing multiplayer casual, and you should just stick to 1v1 where diplomacy is not the strongest effect in the game.
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Post by toastytoast78 on Apr 7, 2011 14:46:47 GMT -5
In my experience and opinion, getting targeted first in multiplayer usually means one of two things: Either you have a reputation for winning every game and are thus conceived as the biggest threat, or you were the first one to play something scary or potentially game-ending and thus are the biggest threat. In casual, and especially in EDH, politics can go a long way towards preventing becoming a sort of temporary Archenemy. However, sometimes it's not enough.
Here's some advice based on what I do or have seen done: Try to tone down what you play. Put out a few sacrificial lambs (good cards, but not irreplaceable) early to get killed off and then wait for a while. Try to get other players to respond to threats, unless something absolutely needs to get blown up and you're the only one who can do it at the time. Another idea might be playing cards that benefit everyone, such as Temple Bell. People will start to think "Hey, he's giving me stuff; maybe I should attack someone else." Playing defensively, only trying not to get attacked/targeted instead of actively trying to win the game every turn, can help as well.
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Post by tehwerr on Apr 7, 2011 14:58:13 GMT -5
Another idea might be playing cards that benefit everyone, such as Temple Bell. People will start to think "Hey, he's giving me stuff; maybe I should attack someone else. I tried this. it wasn't that successful. I became the scariest guy on the field despite having a deck supported entirely by free lunches and hot air. word of the wise. temple bell and howling mine do not better your reputation they only make the game go faster.
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Mike
Mike
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Post by Mike on Apr 7, 2011 16:19:37 GMT -5
I believe last thursday there was a person I've never seen before. He sat at his seat and playing nothing but lands the entire game so no one attacked him until he happened to pull off an infinite combo for the win. I've watched games where no one had anything on the board except lands and cards like reliquary tower+30 cards in their hand just so they wouldn't appear as a threat. You can only pull the combo-from-nowhere play for 1 game before people catch on. And if people don't think that someone with 30 cards in hand is a threat, they are playing poorly. Agreed, multiplayer should not be played competitively. It should be played casually as a social game. To play competitively, it is best to play 1v1 formats that are actually structured.
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Post by fredcoleaa on Apr 7, 2011 21:08:03 GMT -5
Yeah. I don't play combo, just good decks.
So the two strategies i see here are: 1. Make my decks mediocre 2. Don't try to win
Neither I consider acceptable.
I like mike's suggestions though.
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NyxAvatar
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"The Arcana are the means by which all is revealed."
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Post by NyxAvatar on Apr 8, 2011 0:02:28 GMT -5
Well, ACTUALLY Kevin Choi, the stranger in question was attacked quite often and targeted with removal by everyone else playing. But no one was playing counter magic so he got to combo off anyhow. Ha, and you guys were gonna let Will Anderson win. Will A: Uh, guys, he just played a Primeval Titan, you should do something. Kevin C: Okay! I'll use Enslave on it! Will A: Ookie. My turn? Tap out for a Primeval Titan?
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Post by lightspvp on Apr 8, 2011 0:47:19 GMT -5
cleaned -kevin
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Kino
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Will
OMIGOSHOMIGOSHOMIGOSHOMIGOSH OMIGOSHOMIGOSHOMIGOSHOMIGOSH
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Post by Kino on Apr 8, 2011 12:05:02 GMT -5
...EDH... I also think that the banned list is not complete enough. I agree with this very strongly, but the official banned list needs to carefully limit itself so as not to overcontrol the format, especially in regards to players who want that high level, high power play. The problem is that it then falls to play groups to come up with their own ban list, and most groups can't agree on what should and shouldn't get banned. Fred, your percieved threat level tends to be proportional to the historical power level of your deck. At a game's start, if your decks are known to be more powerful than everyone else's you will be the default attack target. The only answer is to either tune your deck to protect itself accordingly, or lower the average power level of your deck. I've done this several times with Uril and Progenitus deck. Thing is that you usually don't have to sacrifice too much power to do it. Observe which cards your play group tend to react most strongly to, and just nix those. Eldrazi titans are big ones. If you're the only person a tthe table with titans in your deck, people will go after you. And this applies to cards other than just Kozy and Ula. Time Stretch, Armageddon, Myojin of Night's Reach, Sorin Markov, cards like those tend to get very bad reactions. If people know you are the only one playing those cards, they will go after you.
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Post by thestranger on Apr 8, 2011 15:19:57 GMT -5
aka sit there and appear to be doing nothing while preparing an infinite combo. I believe last thursday there was a person I've never seen before. He sat at his seat and playing nothing but lands the entire game so no one attacked him until he happened to pull off an infinite combo for the win. I've watched games where no one had anything on the board except lands and cards like reliquary tower+30 cards in their hand just so they wouldn't appear as a threat. There is no real way to make multiplayer really competitive. I've seen reports of attempted FFA edh tournaments where players signed up together just to trade winds eachother to victory. FFA in magic is the same way as FFA in any other game such as SC2, sit there and hope you aren't attacked so you can sweep the game once everyone else is done fighting. A "good" edh deck I've found is just a matter of how many friends you have at the table that are willing to not attack you. "Which I then killed after mind twisting, sundering titaning, and mind shattering him on the past 3 consecutive turns? derpherp. stranger: don't let will anderson win! /proceeds to do exactly what will anderson would do with the same exact cards with the same combo. From where I stand, the "stranger" played exactly like Will Anderson and is basically the equivalent, and possibly worse. From what I've seen, honestly, the "stranger" complained A LOT more than Will did at any point in the game. When I decided to destroy his untapped island rather than a tapped one, he put up a much bigger hissyfit than Will did when I killed 3 of his lands. When I mind shattered Will for 4 on turn 3~ then later did it again with yawgmoth's will he simply said "okay" or sighed rather than loudly complaining that one of his creatures got enslaved. I've played with some top tier gamers (professional and semipro players in WoW (MLG/ IntelExtremeMasters/ WCG), people who dropped out of HS/college for professional counterstrike(cevo p) and some pretty decent SC/SC2 players (was past rank 8 worldwide in WoWarena/top ~250 NA SC2)), so I'm rather picky with who I game with, and the "stranger" is not someone I would play with again willingly. Anyway, this is way off topic. But in summation, play some different decks and stop caring so much what happens to you in multiplayer. Play 1v1 for the win, play multiplayer for the lulz." First off, it ceases to amaze me how much the history of a game can change depending on who is telling the story. A couple clarifications: "He sat at his seat and playing nothing but lands the entire game so no one attacked him until he happened to pull off an infinite combo for the win." Actually, if I remember correctly, I played Mana Reflection, Mind's Eye, Consecrated Sphinx, Primeval Titan, various counters, and regrowth effects. If you consider this playing nothing but lands, then you have a lot to learn about the game. "A "good" edh deck I've found is just a matter of how many friends you have at the table that are willing to not attack you." -I find it REALLY ironic that you mention this when you consider the fact that I knew NO ONE at the table except Jared, and he did very little to affect the game. "stranger: don't let will anderson win! /proceeds to do exactly what will anderson would do with the same exact cards with the same combo." -I almost died laughing. Let me refresh your memory a bit: I play a Mana Reflection. Will Anderson points out to everyone at the table that I played a Mana Reflection and that it needs to be dealt with. Your friend plays Creeping Mold on my Mana Reflection. I counter it. What does Will Anderson do? Plays a Krosan Grip on it. He had an answer for it the entire time but was just trying to get people to gang up on me. Then I regrowthed my Mana Reflection and played it again (yes, I play good cards). Then I played a Primeval Titan. Will Anderson does the same charade as last time, and you proceed to Slaughter my Titan. I respond with a counter. Then you Enslave it. Fine. What does Will Anderson do? Plays his own Titan. I find it hilarious that you think I was getting people to target Will Anderson and then copied his plays. Actually, it was the other way around. "When I decided to destroy his untapped island rather than a tapped one, he put up a much bigger hissyfit than Will did when I killed 3 of his lands." -Again, funny that you mention this. Just to remind you, you did in fact point to my tapped land, and had this been a real tournament I would have called a judge on you if you attempted to say otherwise. But thats besides the point. I didn't say anything, I quietly put my island in the yard. Will Anderson, on the other hand, was the one who started creating an issue in the first place. It wasn't until he complained multiple times about me not putting the untapped one in the yard that anyone cared (you even said yourself that it didn't matter). Derp. A few other things to remind you of: -On top of multiple people ganging up on me with removal spells, my hand was completely RAPED the entire game. First myojin of nights reach, then will anderson causing me to discard with Liliana. It wasn't until I TOP DECKED a Time Warp that I was actually able to do anything. Not to mention that you chose to swing at me with 10/10 Sword of Light and Shadow creatures instead of killing Liliana and stopping Liliana from tutoring MULTIPLE times. I don't think you want to see what my deck can do when I get to tutor multiple times. In closing, your deck was anything but impressive and I find it humorous that you claim your deck was the only deck doing anything. I should also mention that you claim you are picky about which friends you play with and yet the friend you played with is playing Holy Day in an EDH deck? Good joke. Also, I would love to play you in Starcraft 2 sometime, seeing as how you portray yourself to be a starcraft legend. TL;DR version: Stay small, scrub.
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Post by massimiliano on Apr 8, 2011 16:24:05 GMT -5
Ok no need to argue about a game. I remember watching this game iirc and yes the story does change based on who tells it. Magic is a game about politics, not the shear power of ones deck. Keep that in mind. Someones game plan may have been to direct all the hate to someone who played something else first, thats fine, learn to make decisions for yourself. If you have an answer to something you personally feel is a threat, use it. On the other hand if someone tells you to destroy something/attack someone, think to yourself: "Why? Does it affect me at all? Does the other person have something that they could play that I would want to deal with instead?" There may be no immediate reason to use your answer just because someone else wants you to do it.
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Post by massimiliano on Apr 8, 2011 16:25:58 GMT -5
Also, I still don't like arguments on the forums. You are more than welcome to PM eachother.
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