Jeff S
Member
Let's get the ball rolling
Posts: 74
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Post by Jeff S on May 9, 2011 13:58:49 GMT -5
Hello, some of you may know me, some of you may not (I lurk a bit, but I've been trying to show up more to club)
I just had a question that's been bugging me since I started playing again. (never was really exposed to competitive play before coming to RPI)
Is having nonbasic lands important to building a good deck? I understand the point of fetch lands and everything, but if I don't have a massive pile of nonbasic lands to call upon when I build a deck (more specifically edh) is my deck that much inferior than one that does have them?
If so, is it worth my time to try and trade for ones I need?
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DazBoot
Administrator
[AWD:010203]Grand Arbiter - Foghat
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Post by DazBoot on May 9, 2011 14:20:26 GMT -5
Is it essential? Nope, not at all. You have two directions you can work in: 1) Build a deck that doesn't need to worry about it. Mike S has his Kiki Jiki deck that plays a giant pile of mountains. The man won't even put a valakut in it! 2) Use some very simple spells to fix that up. If you're in green there are some good options, otherwise some cheap artifacts can fit just about every deck. Journeyer's Kite is amazing when just left to go. Signets, and various other common mana machines are quite good. That being said, while you don't need non-basics, they are (usually) not a bad thing. Generally they will increase the flexibility of your deck, giving you either better spell casting abilities (fixing) or added utility (regeneration of Yavimaya Hollow). In short, is it worth your time? Yes, very much so. Are they important for building? Possibly, depending on how you're building. Will your deck be directly inferior? No, of course not. I'd say look to start putting together a collection of lands just like you work on putting together your complete collection of Magic cards. For some pointers, I'll just link the article I wrote about it: IT'S HERE(please forgive some of the formatting errors and dead image, it's an old article!) |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 14:20:53 GMT -5
It is not at all necessary to use nonbasics. In fact, a lot of us build decks with not a single nonbasic land.
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Mike
Mike
Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer: Mike; Draft Master
yo
Posts: 1,776
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Post by Mike on May 9, 2011 14:33:02 GMT -5
In general, you can expect a 2 color deck to function reasonably well on just basics, as long as you don't have a lot of heavy color commitments (like Phyrexian Obliterator, etc). Once you get to 3 or more colors, you're going to want some help in the form of nonbasics and/or color fixing spells. In casual/multiplayer, it is not so difficult to assemble a nice collection of nonbasics. The nonbasic lands that are used competitively to optimize standard and legacy decks can get quite expensive, but many of the common/uncommon ones simply have a drawback of coming into play tapped, which is not such a bad deal in a slower multiplayer game. It's too bad that you didn't get to draft Shards of Alara block, that format taught everyone how to build the most insane manabases  |
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DazBoot
Administrator
[AWD:010203]Grand Arbiter - Foghat
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Post by DazBoot on May 9, 2011 14:59:30 GMT -5
It's too bad that you didn't get to draft Shards of Alara block, that format taught everyone how to build the most insane manabases Fact. Unless you were Max, then you just threw a few basic lands of each type in a pile and call it good! |
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Post by Jaksiel on May 9, 2011 15:18:31 GMT -5
Manafixing is awesome, even in just two-color decks. There are even a few good common/uncommon options. Almost any deck benefits from the Ravnica-block common bouncelands.
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Jeff S
Member
Let's get the ball rolling
Posts: 74
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Post by Jeff S on May 9, 2011 15:30:53 GMT -5
Foghat your link is broken  I even copy pasted the .php that didn't make it into the URL, and still got a 404 error regardless, thanks for the help guys. I've got a decent amount of the bouncelands, and I guess I'll try to up my collection from there instead of just trading them away. |
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Kiki
Will A
none
Posts: 1,309
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Post by Kiki on May 9, 2011 15:38:52 GMT -5
I recommend nobasics if you want to play a 3 color deck with the ability to cast kiki-jiki or magus of the future on turn 5 comfortably.
But in edh, its not terribly important for 1, 2 or 5 color decks (unless you want to play spells with triple colored mana costs).
That said, terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds are pretty cool.
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DazBoot
Administrator
[AWD:010203]Grand Arbiter - Foghat
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Post by DazBoot on May 9, 2011 15:44:06 GMT -5
Link fixed, sorry about that. It's because of the '!' in the url.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 16:57:28 GMT -5
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DazBoot
Administrator
[AWD:010203]Grand Arbiter - Foghat
Posts: 2,777
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Post by DazBoot on May 9, 2011 17:05:40 GMT -5
[/a] tt tags can be used. (the video is irrelevant, just a fun magic instance)[/quote] Okay, just sort of remembered I wrote the article and threw up the link. I prefer to just it. |
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Post by Kyros Pyralis on May 9, 2011 17:18:22 GMT -5
Some advice from a guy that will throw as many nonbasics (even the bad ones) into a deck as he can: there are many cheap/easy to acquire nonbasics.
Tempest Allied Duals - U - Come into play untapped, add a colored mana but doesn't untap next turn.
Tempest Enemy Duals - R - Come into play tapped, cost life to use. Horrible, but cheap. Avoid these unless you really want them (they do have pretty good art).
Invasion Duals - U - Allied colors, come into play tapped.
Planeshift "lair" lands - U - They bounce your own land, but come into play untapped and produce 3 colors of mana.
Ravnica Karoos - C - Also bounce your own lands, come into play tapped, but add 2 colored mana.
Time Spiral Charge Lands - U - Allied colors, require charge counters, or filter mana.
Shards Tri-lands - U - Come into play tapped, add 3 mana (these are probobly the most expensive of the lot).
Rupture Spire - C - Comes into play tapped and costs 1 mana, adds any color.
Nonbasics aren't always necessary, but in casual/EDH formats you may find that the tempo disadvantage is not much of a problem if they help you play your deck without getting color screwed.
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Post by tehwerr on May 9, 2011 19:24:58 GMT -5
I recommend nobasics if you want to play a 3 color deck with the ability to cast kiki-jiki or magus of the future on turn 5 comfortably. I feel that the game is slightly cheapened by the fact that it is possible to construct a mana base using only lands that can comfortably drop these turn five. and then a different color one turn 6 without breaking stride in 3 colors |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 19:27:16 GMT -5
I recommend nobasics if you want to play a 3 color deck with the ability to cast kiki-jiki or magus of the future on turn 5 comfortably. I feel that the game is slightly cheapened by the fact that it is possible to construct a mana base using only lands that can comfortably drop these turn five. and then a different color one turn 6 without breaking stride in 3 colors Agreed. |
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Post by tehwerr on May 9, 2011 20:37:43 GMT -5
you know you don't need to agree with me about everything right.
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